Hundreds of founders look to me for advice. I advocate that founders set the new leader up to succeed well in advance of their departure. I advocate that when the new leader takes over, the founders actually depart, offering the new leader the run room to lead, drive, and be in charge.
Many of you have heard me say that the founder should step away, not serve on the board, or serve in any advisory capacity. Based on what I have seen in founder-led organizations, I think it’s damned good advice.
I just didn’t follow it myself.
I am the founder of the Nonprofit Leadership Lab. A year and a half ago, we brought in a very talented leader, CEO, coach, and public speaker — Glennda Testone. In very short order, she proved herself to be a quick study and gained the trust of our team. She is a regular host on the Nonprofits Are Messy podcast and a regular contributor here on this blog.
All good.
But I am sticking around. She and I agreed that my strategic counsel would be of value. I made it clear that I did not want to drive and had other priorities in my work and personal life.
We used this car metaphor. We agreed that for the first six months, I’d be in the passenger seat as a kind of GPS. I made it wildly clear that if she saw me inching my grubby hands toward the steering wheel, she had my permission to smack them off.
We did pretty well in those first six months, had a 6-month check-in, and decided that I could move to the back seat, where I could be if she needed me (and also further from the wheel).
I thought that was going pretty well until just a few weeks ago. She and I were meeting with a company that could be a valuable partner for our work in the Lab and of real benefit to our 6,000 members. Before the meeting, I sent a note: “Just to confirm, this is your meeting and you are driving.” She responded, “Yup. Will do.”
I gave her no chance to drive. The meeting started, and it was like my body was overtaken by something I can’t really describe. Oh, ok, I guess I can describe it. Overtaken by a DRIVER who was determined to own the room. “Jerk” might be too strong a word, but maybe in that family.
I could feel it. And I couldn’t stop it. I know any of you who are founders know exactly what I’m talking about. And those of you who are leaders with founders “in the house’ in some way know exactly what I am talking about. I lost all connection to the ground rules Glennda and I established.
I climbed right out of the back seat and grabbed that wheel.
If I had stopped or breathed, I might have noticed that Glennda was not leading the conversation and not establishing herself with this new prospective partner. But I was in full driver mode and didn’t see what I was doing.
I screwed up. I blew the ground rules. I intentionally asked her to lead this meeting and then grabbed the reins.
I’m here to tell you that even founders with very good intentions are going to do this. I mean the founders who mean it when they say they are ready to step aside. Of course, the ones who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk — they might say all the right things, but there is some combo of ego and control that breeds a lack of trust, and the new leader isn’t offered a real chance to drive.
This is more than just a ‘true confessions’ blog post. There will be situations in which the founder sticks around, and even though I advise against it, there are situations in which it might make sense.
This post affords me the opportunity to spell out 4 important strategies for navigating the ‘founder in the house.”
And it allows me the opportunity to give a shout-out to Glennda. You’ll see why as you keep reading (see #2 below).
1 – SET RULES OF ENGAGEMENT FROM DAY 1 (AND REVISIT THEM OFTEN)
After Glennda was hired and before her first day, my business partner and I met with a coach to talk about the transition. I created a Google Doc called “How We Might Thwart The New CEO’s Success.” It is a strong list of actions and behaviors that could undermine her in some way. I have it scanned and on my phone. Obviously, I have not looked at it recently.
Glennda and I have regular conversations where we provide feedback to each other. In fact, we use the car metaphor, and I have asked, “Did it feel like I tried to grab the wheel?”
And — I think this is important — I said flat out, “If you feel like I am grabbing the wheel, please, please tell me. I want and need to step back, and to do that, you need every opportunity to succeed. And I can’t get in your way. So I need to know.”
The “revisit them often” part of this advice? Things seemed to be going well, so maybe it had been too long since the revisit part.
2 – NEW LEADER NEEDS TO BE WILLING AND EQUIPPED TO HAVE COURAGEOUS CONVERSATIONS
My phone rang about 5 minutes after the meeting, which I thought went pretty well, and it was Glennda. She was courageous.
“You know that text you sent me before the meeting about driving?”
I may at times be clueless about the impact of my actions, but I’m not a fool. Glennda didn’t need to say another thing. But she continued. With so much care and compassion. And clarity.
“You asked me to drive, we got on the call, and you drove. I know you want me to lead and drive, and I know you have been doing that for over 8 years, so I get that it is hard. I just need to give you this feedback. You all hired me to lead and drive, and I know that you trust me.”
I don’t know how the feedback ended or if I even got it right, but in my mind, it ended with a thought balloon over Glennda’s head that said something like “I came here to lead and drive. If you can’t stay in the back seat, we have a big red flag on the field.”
3 – FOUNDER MUST ACKNOWLEDGE, VALIDATE, COMMIT TO CHANGE (AND CHANGE)
Our new leader has been courageous in speaking the truth and the founder must honor that so that honest communication continues. If not, resentment sets in mighty quickly.
In our situation, I had literally texted Glennda two minutes before the meeting to confirm that she was driving, and so I had zero ability to defend my actions. Far too often, when honest, courageous feedback is offered, the receiver is defensive and the relationship begins to wilt.
I acknowledged what she said. As a Catholic school kid at heart, I apologized profusely. I believe I said that I needed feedback like this because driving comes kinda second nature to me.
I hope Glennda has seen in subsequent meetings that I am working on changing; I bowed out of a few meetings and should probably do more of that.
4 – FOUNDER MUST SHEEPISHLY CRAWL BACK INTO THE BACK SEAT (MAYBE EVEN OFFER TO CLIMB INTO THE TRUNK)
Maybe I should stop being silly and say that if this continues to happen, it might be time for the founder to get out of the car altogether and appreciate the view as it drives off.
I say it often. Founders of social impact enterprises (nonprofit and for-profit) are pretty remarkable people. They have a kind of x-ray vision and can see gaps that other people do not, a gap they are uniquely suited to fill. I’ve written about it and hosted podcasts on this topic.
That said, they can get in their own way. Or more specifically, in the way of the sustainability of the organization they founded. I remember a coaching session with a founder who said, “I want to leave, but I can’t until X, Y, and Z are done.”
And I responded with feedback in the form of a question: “Is it possible that X, Y, and Z are not getting done because you are still here?”
It was a turning point for my client, and we began to have real conversations about his transition.
Glennda is not afraid of what others might see as difficult conversations. She understands that her job is to lead and drive our organization. She is hell-bent on being successful for the good of our members! And she took a leap of faith that I would hear her feedback without the kind of emotions that would impede my ability to hear it and do something with it.
A message to all you founders out there: When you decide to step back or step away, find a person, do some deep thinking about who you are, the power you have, and how you will need to behave in order for the organization you built to thrive under new leadership.
And when you go looking for that person, you want someone who checks all the skills and expertise boxes.
Be sure to add two more boxes. You want someone who:
1 – Communicates with clarity and kindness.
2 – Willing and able to have courageous conversations.
And when you have found that person, offer them the job. And climb into the back seat. (Or the trunk.)
