The Podcast
Nonprofits are messy
Answering the most pressing questions faced by nonprofit leaders around the world, Nonprofits Are Messy is hosted by Joan Garry and Glennda Testone and created for the people doing this work every day.
This podcast is for the leaders who show up anyway—executive directors, senior staff, heads of school, development professionals, board leaders, and so many others committed to public service. The work is complex, often overwhelming, and deeply human. We don’t shy away from that.
Our goal is simple. We bring in the right voices to answer the real questions nonprofit leaders are carrying—honestly, practically, and without pretense. The result is a conversational space that informs, challenges, and reminds you that you are not alone in this work.


Ep 255: Managing Across Generations: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know
Managing a team that spans five generations isn’t a Gen Z problem. It’s a leadership challenge. In this episode, I sit down with Jason Burlingame to talk about the workplace tensions that seem to resurface with every generation and what it takes to lead through them.

Ep 254: Building Belonging When DEI Feels Like a Four-Letter Word
I sat down with Dr. Kiki Ramsey, positive psychologist and CEO of the Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute, to have an honest conversation about DEI that nonprofit leaders need to hear right now. We’re covering what’s changing and how nonprofits can keep building belonging even in a hostile climate.

Ep 253: Still Figuring It Out: An Honest Take on People Pleasing and Leadership
For a long time, Glennda Testone’s people-pleasing nature shaped – and sometimes complicated – her leadership. In this honest, personal solo episode, she shares her journey from people pleaser to recovering people pleaser. Plus, five practical strategies for leading well when you’re wired to make everyone happy.

Ep 252: CRM Matchmaking: How to Ensure the Right Fit for Your Nonprofit
Think of finding the right CRM like matchmaking – it takes time, self-awareness, and knowing what you actually need versus what just looks good on paper. Glennda Testone sits down with Julia Gachenbach of DonorPerfect to walk through the do’s and don’ts of the matchmaking process to help your organization find the right fit.

Ep 251: Reimagining Nonprofits: The Uncomfortable Conversation We Need to Have
What if the rules we’ve built our sector around are actually holding us back? I sat down with author, blogger, and nonprofit rabble-rouser Vu Le to dig into the uncomfortable truths behind his new book, Reimagining Nonprofits and Philanthropy, and why the sector’s greatest threat may be its own suppressed imagination.

Ep 250: The Power of Neighbors: A Leadership Story from Minneapolis
When crisis hit Minneapolis, nonprofit leaders and neighbors didn’t wait for rescue. In this episode, Emilia Gonzalez Avalos of Unidos Minnesota shares what it took to build a rapid-response infrastructure, protect communities, and turn terror into collective action.

Ep 249: Financial Resilience Isn’t Luck – It’s Strategy
In a nonprofit, revenue often feels uncertain. But here’s the secret: financial resilience isn’t luck – it’s strategy. In this episode, Glennda Testone and Bethany Maki of Progressive Multipliers explore how nonprofits can build independent revenue, diversify funding, and strengthen long-term sustainability.

Ep 248: Strategic Planning for Nonprofits: Simple, Agile, and Real
Strategic planning doesn’t have to be expensive, exhausting, or end up on a shelf. In this episode, Glennda Testone talks with Sophia Shaw and Adam Wolford of PlanPerfect about a smarter, more accessible approach to nonprofit strategic planning – especially for small to mid-sized organizations.

Ep 247: A Volunteer’s Guide to Major Donor Conversations
In this episode, I’m joined by my wife Eileen Opatut, a volunteer fundraiser who landed a yes on her first major ask! Together, we break down what actually works and walk through the real mechanics of successful fundraising.

Ep 246: If You Believe Leadership Matters, Prove It!
Nonprofit leaders aren’t burning out because they’re incapable. They’re burning out because we’re not setting them up for success. In this episode, I make the case for why leadership development is not optional – and why investing in leaders is one of the most powerful retention strategies our sector has.
Required Listening
– JENWATLEYNELSON
“No one should attempt to work at or lead a nonprofit (or maybe any company) without Joan! Always timely and relevant.”
Thank You!
– MICHTORG
“I run a national nonprofit, large in reach and impact, but small on budget. I’ve been gobbling up resources and at times feel like I’m boing an ocean as I click through the hyperlinks on Google docs, looking for the answer on how to lead and do the right thing in a global pandemic! Joan kindly reminds the listener that the answers are within us and are core to our leadership attributes, and coaches the listener on how to focus and pivot with great suggestions and resources. Thank you!”
Best Thing Ever!
– CARLAP44
“This is my new favorite podcast! Joan knows her stuff and she had a great guest who also knows their stuff! Every episode is interesting and informative. I highly recommend this podcast to anyone working in the nonprofit!”
Best Nonprofit Podcast!
– ABRAANNES
“Real, in-depth interviews that provide tangible steps and tools to nonprofits!”
So Informative!
– MARIESTJAMES
“I just started listening to this podcast and I have already learned so much that I can immediately apply to my job and my organization. Thank you for the extremely relevant and practical information and discussion. It has already made me see my job in a new light!”

Nonprofits Are Messy is typically listed as #1 in the nonprofit category on Apple Podcasts!
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